05-07-2002, 11:50 AM
Is this car going to happen, or was it never a serious concept?
Don't think there's any way my company lease will stretch to the new shape 9-3 in 2004, but would stretch to a sporty 9-2, if they build the damn thing!
If this doesn't happen, I'll probably end up with a Skoda Superb. Bigger and more spec than a Passat, for about £1500 less! New Golf looks tempting too - you can see with my wafflings here that Saab are losing out, as there is no cheaper model to choose from...
05-07-2002, 01:53 PM
Saab 9-2? No. The "photo" was invented by AutoExpress and one of their staff who is obviously a bit handy with Photoshop.
05-07-2002, 04:41 PM
I heard that the 9-2 is still on their schedule. So also is the variable compression engine.
I wouldn't be surprised if those two were seen together. The greatest potential sales could come from a small car with good fuel consumption, but possibly fire breathing power.
The current rival is the S3 in my opinion.
05-07-2002, 04:45 PM
StanleyB. there is such a car..
Astra SRi Turbo, I am reliably informed that has an engine breathed over by the hallowed Dr Gillbrand.
Audi S3, tiny inside, would prefer something roomier... like a Polo or Metro
I have heard nothing of the 9-2 since this time two years ago. Not a thing. What have you heard, and where?
Also, SVC engine, last I heard they had them on test in Saab 9-5s. They were proving too noisy at the time - that was about a year/18mths ago. Can you update us on this, too?
I worry about reports/rumour/conjecture that the new Saabs will be using GM/Vauxhall Ashtray petrol engines and Fiat (????) diesel engines. What happened to the Isuzu units?
Did people complain and moan like this when they introduced the Ford V4 engine?
05-07-2002, 06:22 PM
I will defend Vauxhall to the hilt. I'm on my fourth vauxhall, one common characteristic has been the excellent engines, the current crop of ECOTECs are superb (and I am fairly certain that the gearbox of my 2-litre SRi was made in Gothenburg as Saab had a GM contract to make gearboxes for GME cars about 8-9 years ago), with ECOPOWER treatment these engines ahould be even better.
New Jaguars have 'souped' up Ford Duratecs, which are not a patch on GM engines - Audi's are badge engineered VW's - and BMW's roomiest product was probably the METRO.
My next car will have a Wyvern/Griffin badge.
05-07-2002, 07:20 PM
In fairness John, the Fiat diesels they're talking about are already here.... and badged Isuzu - the two of them shared development on the engines which are badged TiD on Saab and JTD on Fiat and Alfa, but they're basically one and the same thing, just differing in displacement and the brand sticker on the top!
The same goes for Vauxhall - why is it that not one of the reviews I have read of the "oh so wonderful" engine in the Astra coupe and SRi has mentioned that it has been fettled and turboed by Saab?
It seems the press only ever report on what they can be bothered to write about, and what suits the purposes of one particular article - Let me cite one example - A magazine which I will call "Bottom Beer" so as to protect its identity, and which I thankfully recieved free as I wouldn't pay a penny for, recently review one of the turboed Astra range (and indeed the Zafira GSi) and commented repeatedly on what a fine engine it was.... and yet in every article about Saabs they don't seem to be able to find a single good word about the Swedish marque.
Wouldn't they look silly if they did any different? If they admitted the Ashtray's engine was a Saab fettled unit, they would then have to admit that Saab make good engines, and that would be beyond the pale for them...
As for the SVC system, it is alive and well - look at http://www.saab.co.uk/home/GB/en/index.xml - under the "What's New" section there is an article about SVC, and I have read in more than one place recently that the first generation of SVC engines are due to make an appearance sometime in the life cycle of the new 9-3 (so probably after it's mid-life facelift circa 2004)
Saab are allegedly still debating which direction to go in. An SUV of some sorts is a given, though how close it may be to the 9X and 93X show cars is anyone's guess. Further they are still periodically commenting about the idea of a smaller car, and more interestingly about a larger 9-5 (9-7 was mooted at one point) to compete with the BMW 7-series and Audi A8.
Supposedly the ideas were ditched when marketing showed that people didn't see Saab as a serious car maker, but now that Skoda have proved that anything is possible, and VW are about to launch the antithesis of the "Volks Wagen" in the £70k Phaeton, it is more than likely that Saab will be reconsidering their position.
Just to add spice to the idea, it has been announced that Cadillac have been withdrawn from GM's Premier division leaving Saab in the top slot, so I suspect GM will be looking to Sweden to provide a wider range and a decent European flagship. Plus if as everyone suspects, GM will buy Fiat and complete their takeover of Alfa Romeo, then there will undoubtedly be more platform sharing of the like that exists between Saab/Vauxhall currently. Fiat have cancelled their new big car, apparently in anticipation of a GM takeover, as it would be cheaper to use the GM/Saab Epsilon chassis than try and recuse their rather pathetic attempt! And yet further still, the next generation Alfa 156 is due tobe on a modified Epsilon chassis to enable them to have 4WD variants.
So after all that rambling, the answer is no, nothing is set in stone, but looking at it from a marketing and engineering perspective, all the pieces are in place, and all that needs to be done is for Bob Lutz to sign on the dotted line.... http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Watch this space!
05-07-2002, 07:21 PM
Bugger me, I didn't realise I'd written THAT much!
Apologies to all those on Hamster-driven connections!
RedLeicester - thanks for the comprehensive and interesting reply. Sounds like I am losing touch
05-08-2002, 06:20 AM
You're losing touch? What about me? I typed my fingers to the bone last night with that lot!
05-08-2002, 08:47 AM
There is some blurb here that is worth reading. It answers(?) some of our questions:
I am still waiting to see this secret SAAB proto type engine that is being tested around the UK. I got my digital camera on standby...
05-08-2002, 09:38 AM
Very interesting, except that the JTD is a 5 cyl engine and the TiD is a 4 in 2.2 guise and 6 in 3litre.
Are you sure this is the same engine...?
Reason I say this, my company is involved in the combining of the IT infrastructures of GM powertrain and Fiat.. and that's only just starting now...(they issued the tender late last year, SAP integration based out of Turin).
I know that Fiat and Saab go back a bit (combined development of 9000 and croma), but GM/Fiat co-developed powertrain work only now starting.
05-08-2002, 09:43 AM
I'll have to keep my eyes peeled - I regularly see cars clad with plastic disguise things (sorry can't remember the name) going up and down the A5 from MIRA.
I always remember seeing 2 black Jaguar S Types (they were disguised but it was obvious they were Jags) screaming down the A5.
Caught a glimpse of one at the weekend, but didn't have a clue what it was.
I ought to get a job at MIRA!
For anyone outside the UK, MIRA is the "Motor Industry Research Association". Well if it isn't that sort of explains what they are - think they do some of the crash tests too - see Mira's web site (http://www.mira.co.uk/)
I regularly see cars clad with plastic disguise things (sorry can't remember the name)[/b]That's your 9000 Carlsson, Kevin!
05-08-2002, 10:08 AM
That's one less Christmas card to send
05-08-2002, 10:11 AM
The Autoweek article (see "Saab in the News" board) on the 9-3x refers to a 9-1. I've never heard anything before on this - anyone else heard anything on this?
Autoweek article (http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03154418)
Kev, just chuck a load of black plastic on the Carlsson to diguise it from the Missus, that way you can keep it
Has anyone seen the articl on the AutoExpress website today with their computer enhanced image of what the 9-3 might look like. It looks terrible. I never believe any "photo" I see in that mag anymore.
They say that they found the stuff "tucked away on an enthusiast's website" but they do not give it credit. I'd like to know whether they got it from this one or the other one?
05-08-2002, 11:37 AM
Let's go deeper...:
That Sonet and 9-7 SUV looks kinda nice...
But best go here: http://home.swipnet.se/danny/